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Subject Topic: The true sellling price of PY 26s? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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priority one
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Posted: 2010/January/27 at 4:16pm | IP Logged Quote priority one

What can the true selling price of the PY26 be?

I have seen "paceship 26s" and heard of others called "27s".  The latter seemed to command a much higher selling price than the actual PY 26s I have found in ads.  Talking with owners I began to realise there is a mystery 'paceship' earnestly sought after and people willing to pay. 

It turns out the mystery boats are Tanzer 27s which, as you probably know, are PY26s with a few ad-dons.

So don't be shy guys.  You have a great boat.  Learn from the Tanzer crowd and ask for better prices.

I recall a lesson from a saleswoman some years ago.  She sold ladies' fashions, mainly mantles and dresses.  From time to time her shop had a sale.  Some good quality items that had not moved were included.  Amongst them were several which had their prices raised, not lowered, 'just to see' if maybe they had been asking too little for them.  Most of them sold.

Are owners asking too little for their Paceships?  If a Tanzer 27 can go for 12000 and gets sold, what are you doing you guys and guyesses moving out of paceships. 

And don't be beat by boat salespeople.  So many of them, like real estate agents, seem to need items which will sell quicker to proved basic commission while other boats' sales will provide the jam and caviar.  Let us aim to be providers of jam and caviar and no longer basics.



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Jay Moran
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Posted: 2010/January/27 at 10:37pm | IP Logged Quote Jay Moran

What are you talkin about?  I saw a 1980 PY26 for sale in germany for $32 grand! 

Seriously folks...In my view the Tanzer 27 should go for less than the PY26 not more as the Tanzer version changed to a deck stepped (vs keel stepped mast) - a much weaker arrangement.  The PY26 was 26' 4 1/2"" while the Tanzer added some hardware on the bow to squeak it over 26.5 ft - hence the Tanzer 27...

Tanzer was a decent maker but certainly never as heralded as Paceship and despite trying I am sure, AMF never was able to take much "fat" out of the PY's as the die was cast (fuundementally as a result of the molds) although I am sure they tried.  I think The tanzer gets a few more bucks simply because they are on average 5 years newer and a "foot" longer (to the uneducated).  Of course, they too had to build the hulls as dictated by the molds so they too are tough boats!

We track most of the boat sales in the Paceship classifieds (final sales prices) and other places. In general, I tell people a fully equipped "cream puff" (darn near like new) inboard, full keel boat (the most desirable version) will go for 10 to 12k typically.

Take off 1k for a keel/CB version and 1k for an outboard. Add 2-3 k for a repowered inboard. Take of 1-2 k for each notch below cream puff (very good, good, fair etc).  If the rigging has not been redone, take off another grand and if the sails are "good" but not close to new, take of a grand. Missing a key goody like a rudder of CB? a grand a piece.

So a "good" CB/outboard version PY26 with average but complete gear normally sells for average 11k minus 2k for keel/engine and minus condition adjustments of 2-4 grand leaves a selling price to about $5-7k. Of course location AND motivation counts so it can vary a lot.  I know someone who reported one they sold for one recently for $14k CDN (about 12k USD at the time)  so you never know!

~J~



Edited by JayMoran on 2010/January/28 at 5:45pm


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Posted: 2010/January/28 at 4:17pm | IP Logged Quote priority one

Maybe our members listing their PY26s on this website should be upping their price?.Until I saw mine, I had assumed these were questionable boats.  My last boat also suffered from low price trauma - but anyone buying one counts himself lucky.  As I do now - for the second time!

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Posted: 2010/February/19 at 9:55pm | IP Logged Quote macgyverri

Rhode Island, many other states and all marinas want the end to end measurement and mine is 26' 9" from front of Pulpit to the rear of rudder. They all call it a 27' and so do I.

As far as whats it's worth? I've added a lot...

45 gal. fresh water tank, elec. water pump, plumbing, shower and deck shower.

5" memory foam and new fabric to the interior cushions.

DSC radio w/ GPS

LCD TV, AM/FM/CDMP3 w/ 4 Bose cubes, Microwave, Grill, Fume/Gas detection alarm system, 110 volt power converter, 110 volt shore power w/ inside outlets.

10K BTU Propane vent free heater :)

I wouldn't sell it for less than $10-12k (unless I stripped the equip.)



Edited by macgyverri on 2010/February/19 at 10:46pm


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Posted: 2010/February/20 at 12:56pm | IP Logged Quote Jay Moran

Hey Ken,

The states want an end to end measurement and for such they follow coast guard definitions for all measurements. According to the US Coast Guard Boat Crew Seamanship Manual Section B-22 - Overall Length, "The overall length of a boat is technically called the length overall (LOA) and is the distance from the foremost to the aftmost points on the the boats hull". This specifically excludes bow sprints and "transom accessories". This has certainly been my experience in the 9 states in which we have lived. Of course it is always possible for some inept or untrained bureaucrat at some locality to require something different. 

As for marinas, I agree for sure since this measurement determines how they get paid for services, one can expect they will measure the longest point!

Finally, I think you might find it awkward to advertise your boat as "27 foot Paceship PY26" and as well, the buyer might become miffed when he was sold the boat under false pretenses!

As for the value of a boat if much non-original equipment is added, naturally, that raises its value over a similar "standard equipped" boat. For those wishing to establish a likely fair price on their boat with same, a rule of thumb for such added gear is that it will bring from about 30% to no more than about 50% of the average retail value of the component. Naturally that assumes that the average buyer would actually want the added accessory (so don't add much for a diving board if you have installed one - or more unbelievably the photos sent by a proud new PY23 owner who believed the pictured gear to be from the OEM!).

Best,

~J~







Edited by JayMoran on 2010/February/20 at 12:58pm


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Posted: 2010/February/20 at 2:02pm | IP Logged Quote macgyverri

I agree w/ you on the PY26, but the state was explicit on LOA, "include anything in measurement" and even referenced a Tanzer 27 (they knew the boats). It has to be registered as a 27' here. Bowsprits also are included, they don't care.

In this and many other states, "26' 1/4"" LOA = 27' (next higher footage). I also say it's a PY 26', they call it a 27. Semantics...




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Posted: 2010/February/22 at 3:48pm | IP Logged Quote Jay Moran

Hey Ken,

I looked up my FL State boaters manual and also took a spin around on the net.  The states I readily found such information for included FL, GA, NC, NM, and OR and if I kept at it I would likely find more.  Below is the exact wording from each state.

NC A boat's length is measured along its centerline from the outside of the bow to the outside of the stern. This measurement does not include any attachments, such as swim platforms or wakeboard towers or outboard engines.

OR -The length is measured from bow to stern excluding sheer. This is a straight line measurement of the overall length from the foremost part of the boat to the aftermost part of the boat, measured parallel to the centerline. Bow sprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motor brackets, swim platforms and similar fittings or attachments are not included in the measurement. Length shall
be stated in feet and inches.

NM - (Overall Boat Length) Boat Length is measured as the length of the hull from the bow of the vessel (excluding any anchor or bow sprints) to the stern-transom (excluding the ski platform and engine) in feet and inches.

GA Length is measured from the tip of the bow in a straight line to the stern. This does not include outboard motors, brackets, rudders, bow attachments, or swim platforms and ladders not a molded part of the hull.

I asked the RI Office of Boat Reg & Lic and basically RI is in step with all other states I have found or know of and the statute 46-22-4 guiding same that I got from RIBRL says: For the purpose of the above fee schedule, "overall length" shall be defined as the horizontal distance between the foremost part of the stem, and, the aftermost part of the stern, excluding bowsprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motor brackets, and similar fittings or attachments. For purposes of this section, a fraction of a foot shall be deemed to be the next higher foot.

So Ken,  this confirms that RI does round up to the next higher foot but this is not a statement of the boat length really but only a way by which to charge you a fee.  Obviously, the round up rule is simply meant to garner more revenue for the state, much like it might be done in a marina!

Unfortunately the fee range in this case is 26-30 ft, so I did not save you any money in this case but hey, you Rhode island 29 footers as well as PY23's East winds Westwinds, mouettes, P20's et al...you are welcome for the forum finding you some savings!  LOL.

Anyway, bottom line is regardless of what RI's fee schedule says, I think it is prudent to continue to cite boat length as measured according to Coast Guard Standards.

As I said, I never rely on the training of some bureaucrat to correctly interpret the statutes!

Hope this clarifies the topic.

~J~

Edited by JayMoran on 2010/February/22 at 7:23pm


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